Well, isn't it lovely that auto cannons can switch their damage type, and are good everywhere? See the problem with lasers against tengus, for example, is that if you use Imperial Navy Multifreq, most tengus will have over 90% thermal resist with a single invuln alone, thus making you loose almost half your dps right there.

You could switch to scorch, but then you loose 20% of your dps right off the bat. Also a tracking penalty from scorch, which may or may not hurt you against an AB fit tengu. Now, lasers aren't bad in this situation, but autocannons are better because you'll want to web him since 90% of tengus are ab fit anyway. And once you're in web range AC's win.

Just to be clear: lasers aren't bad.

It's just that for cloaky PvP, unbonused blasters and autocannons are FAR better than cap bonused lasers. Dehval's fit is a pretty good example of this.

They are different, they don't have analogs (why one should train gallente/amarr skills to use the only ones cloaky exploration damage dealers?) and they overlap with CovOps - why would you ever need one with these beasts?

So, they don't belong to one of the currently existing ship classes which makes them what is called "a fifth wheel of the cart" because they are somewhere between CovOps and usual damage dealing ships.

Useful after a fight. I'd rather keep my dps at 100% and rep it on the go.

Amarr uses drones also, so it is a shared trait. If it gets lasers it is pushed too much to the Amarr side.

It's intended as an exploration combat ship. It's also unique in that specialization. If it's not OP in that niche wouldn't that mean it has failed in design?

REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved

Carry a mobile fitting array and you wont ever need to have a large drone bay unless you were PvPing and didnt know what you were engaging.

"15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam)" > I'm not understanding here

"I don't care what anything was designed to do, I care about what it can do. " ~Apollo 13

And it isn't in a shield gank role, it's in a cloaky gank role which puts it in a fundamentally different category. The ship, in its current form, can fit that role regardless of what else it was designed to do. It's up to CCP to decide if it does cloaky ganking too well, well enough, or not well enough.

There are two types of people in this thread, those that see what this ship will be used for in pvp, and those that want to run 6/10's without using a scout alt to check the gate if its clear to jump in the next system.

Reducing the drone bay is pointless. It will only effect how long you can explore null/wormhole space (which is the purpose of the SoE cruiser. Long deployment exploration that can bite back). It doesn't address CPU issues, how to entice people to fit lasers on it, or its damage output. Lets please move on.

My problem is it does 1127 dps before heat. That's twice as much as a cloaky proteus, and 3 times as much as a typical cloaky loki.

In a typical nullsec site (the one's that people run solo anyway) you'll get about 400-600 incoming dps from the npc's, and then that cruiser uncloaks on top of you and...boom. As a ganker, I think it's a little over the top.

I'll use the ship to gank along with everyone else, but there's a point where it stops being reasonable. You're getting Talos levels of dps on a cruiser with a covops cloak. And the Talos uses blasters, and the Talos gank fit only has 29k ehp, and that had to be nerfed in one of the recent patches.

IDK, it just seems a bit much for a covops cruiser. But I'll happily retire my Cloaky Proteus when it comes out, I guess...

Read the dam thread, it's been linked four or five times.

Edit : For the Lazy.

You're absolutely right about rats being there for proteus/loki as well, but the Difference between taking 500 rat dps + 500 proteus dps and taking 500 rat dps +1127 SOE cruiser DPS is absolutely massive.

The new cruiser looks amazing.
No reason for me to use a cloaky recon anymore :)

If the frigate should be able to probe, salvage and cloak without refitting, it needs 3 high slots.

Also, that cruiser is overpowered. Should only have a bandwidth of 75, 100 tops.

Its is ALMOST as strong as a pirate cruiser but can use COVERT CLOAK! THat is the issue!!! Covert cloak is maybe the most powerful module in game!

they really need covops/recon ships skills as prerequisites.

The frigate could use a damage bonus to push it past 99 DPS with Hobgoblins.

Withotu damage bonus Lasers win on effective tracking and range (because you will fight at logner range) and not losing DPS due to falloff. And since most ships are SHIELD tanked nowadays the lasers do not have a bad damage type.

AC are powerful when they get their standard ROF bonus that is farmore powerful than the bonuses of other ships.

I'm still not sure why people see the need for this. What is it that you are trying to accomplish keeping the goals of the design in mind?

I really wish ccp would put more thought into this kind of thing. This game doesnt need this kind of ship. Of course all eceryonr does is scream "new and shiny yay!" **** repercussions right?

Yeah thats true. Still though, these are a little ridiculous. I cant see myself ever flying an ishtar Nexor or gila over that soe ship. Mind you the gilas not rebalanced yet but you get my drift.

Lol.

CCP is offering a ship that, and I quote, can be used for "killing anom runners". Which is precisely what I want to do with it.

Aside from you being butthurt about pvp players, what's wrong with that?

(oh, and I handily refuted all of your points, which is why you resorted to such an obvious diversion and dismissal tactic. It's a fair bet that the first person to do this is the overall loser of the argument. As such, I accept your surrender, being the gracious person that I am.)

And you don't need 900 dps to run a 6/10. You can complete almost all of them with sub 400 dps. Why do we have to keep defending this ship keeping its insanely high dps?

I'm sorry, should I use Gardes?

We are still rocking 800 dps at range using Pulses with scorch + Gardes. I guess you could argue that ships will be farther away than 30km? Well, lets switch it out. Let's use Beams and hit out to 47km with Curators. I guess now we are running into balanced territory with 627 dps. We are still massively over the dps requirement to complete a 6/10 with a reasonable amount of time.

Of course, I also mentioned you could just cheat and not use the analyzers, you are in low-sec and there are bound to be stations everywhere. Give your drones some Navigation computers. The once sub 1k m/s drones are now going at a respectable 1.8k m/s to 2k m/s depending on type. Or if you are a sentry man, you can give your Gardes two omnis and shoot to 45km + 12km, more range than any pre-nullsec combat site will need you to shoot out to, still 800 dps.

This 800-900 range is a real number that can be hit very easily for a standard DED running fit in this ship's current state. It is not something reserved for only hypothetical fits. Most will probably over tank the thing when they first get it out of fear of losing it. I give that mentality about two weeks before people realize it doesn't take much to get by in a 6/10 and they switch to the gank oriented fits.

- For PVP this is wildly OP compared to every other cloaky ship.

The 5s delay is crippling in every theory, yet many still die to cynoing recons and cloaky T3s, which share the same penalty....

~Lots of fits~

And the killing blow, a very, very bad Proteus fit :
[Proteus, cloaky-probe-gank]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Hobgoblin II x5

---

542 dps cold/608 oh
469m/s AB
1190m/s MWD
95kehp
And yes, cloak+probes, and the dps will be far more real than the ogres dps.

This oddity can take on a lot more ennemies than the Stratios can (simple dps/ehp ratio here, but we're talking brawlers, that's how they work), and have the same perks (or more, in fact, because with the new warp mecanic, this thing will warp faster :D). And yet, I haven't seen EVE turned into Proteus Online. And of course, this fit is so bad I'm pretty sure someone already have a way better fit for the job than this comedy fit.

This.

It's funny people compare the Stratios to a gank Proteus when the Proteus is leagues above a Stratios in terms of tank and ACTUAL, EFFECTIVE DPS.

And if you lose a Proteus, the loss is way more painful.

Hence, people are leaping for joy about this bad boy. Simpler to skill into, same cov ops cloak, same cov ops gank.

Funnily enough, what you propose is actually a ludicrous buff to it's ganking ability.

Sorry to tell you this, but anything with a cov ops cloak, is a ganking ship. Whether you like it or not, that's what it will be used for. You think I can't manage a good enough bump by dropping cloak while approaching, then hitting an MWD to get ten seconds of stopping you from warping? Because I am pretty sure I can.

Aside from that one little point, you have incredibly overbuffed the ship. Seemingly, only because you hate the idea of it being used to gank. What's wrong with using it to gank, that so offends you?

[quote=M1k3y Koontz]



Wha? You might have me confused with someone else. I am slavering at the thought of taking this thing out, I don't want it nerfed, and I'm not "scared" of anything to do with it. I am arguing that +5 virus strength is pointless, and that I hate the laser cap bonus, but that's about it.

The hacking mini-game that was introduced in Odyssey requires was intended to move the profession from Skill point dependence to Player skill dependence.
The ship bonuses were to make it easier, but are not required.

To be fair this is the first time I have ever gotten a run straight to the core, outside of the initial testing before odyssey, let alone 2 in the same site.

But right now it is to good, it tramples over all other hunter class ships.

Yeah well base Ogre damage application isn't amazing but this ship has plenty of ways to go about applying that damage to stuff they'd otherwise struggle to hit if your a little creative - even scram + double web would work fairly well and is fairly standard fitting.

Amayzing fit, this ship will easily melt everything, and it has a covert ops cloaking and sisters expanded probe launcher!!!!!

CCP has to either remove some highslots from this cruiser, or prevent it from using neuts.

getting blobbed in plexes by cloaky ships and links